31 Mar 09 Autobot OOC Meeting

Meeting Room(#3334RDrtNu) The MUSH Meeting Room --Present In Room-- Rodimus Prime

Contents: MEETING RULES(#2544) Distracting ANSI Spammer Time Out thingy(#7663) Obvious exits:  leads to Visitors Center.

Swindle has arrived.

Broadside has arrived.

Swindle says, "I'm here to offer competitive cut-rate meeting space."

You say, "Righto."

First Aid has arrived.

First Aid needs to idle and will miss the first bit of the meeting.

You say, "Understood."

First Aid says, "But rest assured I disagree with anything anyone says."

You say, "That's all right."

You say, "I think you're wonderful. Especially now that you are required to disagree with it."

Hot Spot has arrived.

Warpath has arrived.

Gears has arrived.

Swindle says, "I concur. Great meeting, Prime. Now let's get out there and apply these simple methods to RP in general! See y'all later!"

Silverbolt has arrived.

Warpath says, "SDFLHSGOIHSGOIHSG"

Clutch has arrived.

Dee-Kal has arrived.

Dee-Kal combs a strand from her optics.

Nightbeat has arrived.

Mirage has arrived.

Durango has arrived.

Announcement: Durango shouts, "Hey there, MUSH! The AUTOBOT OOC MEETING is happening! In the OOC Meeting Room! Go OOC, VR, MR, or +meetme someone already there. All factions welcome!"

Avalanche has arrived.

Steeltread has arrived.

Steeltread belches.

 Durango says, "If I disappear at any point, figure that I passed out and/or the ticket counter opened up."

Warpath says, "It's an OOC room, no need for the ooc command. :)"

Quickswitch has arrived.

Warpath says, "Quackswatch!"

Nightbeat says, "Durango is actually IC."

Nightbeat says, "He is invoking the power of double negative."

 Durango uses +ooc to delineate Meeting Chatter vs. Non-Meeting Chatter.

 Swindle uses +ooc as a tax dodge.

 Durango says, "Also, because I have a special Mastercard that gets me 5% back every time I use +ooc"

 Warpath says, "Ahh. That's actually quite clever. Can we get that established as a meeting 'rule'?"

 Durango says, "Also, what Nightbeat said."

 Dee-Kal oocs, just in case.

 Nightbeat says, "Darn Cardmaster Nebulans!"

You say, "All right. I think we can get started."

 Dee-Kal says, "Do we all line up and say hi?"

 Dee-Kal says, "Officially-like?"

You say, "Nope."

You say, "I can see the contents list. ;)"

Steeltread says, "What'd you wanna cover first Rod?"

 Dee-Kal says, "K."

You say, "First, the ground rules. Durango's idea of using +ooc to distinguish from Meeting chatter vs. Non-Meeting chatter is a good one, although once the ball's rolling, I'd prefer non-meeting chatter go to channels or similar. Second, while I would like to keep things more or less casual, I would like to have definite starts and stops to topics, because some topics can otherwise go on forever unless we all agree to move on when it's time to move on."

Warpath says, "Damn it, Rumble is BLUE!"

Warpath coughs. Sorry.

You say, "If you have a topic that you want to bring up, please page me, and I'll add you to a list, then turn things over to you. Otherwise, I'm not going to ask that people page just to speak on the current topic or anything, but would appreciate sticking to the topic at hand. Fair enough?"

Warpath says, "Works for me."

First Aid returns.

You say, "Next, my introduction. Hello, I am your new Prime, and I cannot tell you how thrilled I am to get the character and the bit. I really, really look forward to RPing with the lot of you. For those who haven't checked my +oocfinger yet, I also play Red Alert and Fleet. I've been on the MUSH on and off since 2004, which makes me relatively new around here, but, with a long interruption for the Navy, I've been MUSHing since around 1992-'93, and been a fan of Transformers pretty much my whole life."

Clutch welcomes.

Warpath says, "And if I can just say, it's about damn time you got the gig, too."

Clutch (to Rodimus)

Warpath says, "All due respect to former players of the character, of course."

You say, "Thanks, guys. :) Now, I actually do like the space opera that was Season Three best amongst the seasons, and am very happy that the game has moved more and more into space of late. This does not mean that I intend to leave Earth or Cybertron to their own devices (I hope that some of the recent IC orders given make that clear). I'm just glad that we have the option to choose amongst the locations. Also, I think the new, big ships are pretty neat, and think they offer the potential for somewhat Star Warish or Star Trekkish scenes from time to time."

You say, "My big thing, though, as Prime, my big focus with this character is this: I would like to see the Autobots take a more proactive approach to the conflict than they frequently do."

Steeltread says, "more Assault than reactive?"

Hot Spot says, "Historically being proactive has been an issue, what do you have in mind to solve this?"

First Aid says, "One of the reasons we moved Cybertron was to solve this issue."

Swindle lines up beside Hot Spot.

First Aid says, "Spot and Grimmy have already taken advantage of this so far."

Warpath says, "Okay back up--I'm confused a bit here."

You say, "What's the problem?"

Warpath hasn't been the most active player, but I wasn't aware what this issue First Aid is talking about, and how moving Cybertron solved it.

 Steeltread also gives a vote of confidence for the current Rodimus. off topic quickie comment.

You say, "Who said moving Cybertron solved it?"

First Aid says, "I did."

You say, "Oh. So you did!"

Nightbeat says, "More energy to fight over."

Kup has arrived.

Avalanche says, "That, and they arent tearing the Earth apart, which puts strain on Autobot combat."

Warpath says, "There can also be territory struggles."

You say, "I will note that territory on Cybertron is now a lot more /valuable/ than it had been before."

Warpath says, "Or Autobots laying traps for Decepticons on earth."

First Aid will answer that question, Path. One of the old issues for Bots being proactive was that there was never really anything for them to /attack/. On Earth the Con holdings are either hidden or their main super city, and Cybertron had nothing of value other than some cities that served no purpose. It was like a Red vs Blue situation. Now you have /two/ bases in the middle of a useless planet. Moving Cybertron to a solar system is giving it solar power, thus energy, and thus the land there is valuable.

Hot Spot says, "Territory struggles would be great. Maybe something like russian risk, but a bit less intensive/competitive... What with rumours of a 'Space risk' coming up."

Hot Spot says, "maybe a push to capture a few rooms, but no big rewards so it doesn't turn into a massive combatfest"

Hot Spot notes russian risk also made spy/intel scenes MATTER, which is cool for those intel types out there

Steeltread says, "starting to sound like Star wars: Empire at war."

Warpath says, "Perhaps a "valid attempts at territory must be cleared by a staffer" ruling, to stop people from doing it all the time?"

First Aid says, "That game is great."

Avalanche says, "Well, we dont want to put too much strain on Staffers."

Warpath says, "It's not a big ask to get someone to give the go-ahead about whether any actual attempt at retaking ground can happen."

Clutch says, "Maybe make it known that losing territory isn't 'losing' (more for fun scenes than for keeping score)."

Swindle says, "The level of Autobot proactiveness on Earth goes up and down according to the strength of the Cons. With the Decepticons living out of a suitcase in their underwater base, the Bots are left with nothing to do on Earth but defend against raids. If you give the Decepticons a large territory to defend, it opens them up for defending things themselves. Re: stronghold Africa. If that's the plan with Cybertron, I think the territory lines and this theme of attack/defend territories needs to be made a bit more explicit."

First Aid nods with Swindle. Cybertron as is is kinda confusing. I don't really know who owns what exactly in a lot of cases.

Hot Spot says, "A map graphic with red and purple shaded areas would be great"

Nightbeat says, "I'd like to see a bit more effort be put into destroying relatively important locations. None of this "I nuked Toronto from orbit" that we sometimes see."

Clutch worries that the colored map is like keeping score?

Warpath says, "Having a Cybertron map on the Wiki would be great as people can update territory shifts IN REAL TIME."

Nightbeat says, "Hot Spot - there used to be that map with red and purple shaded areas on the old wiki, but the old wiki is gone."

Swindle says, "Cybertron is -always- confusing. Hell, right now Earth itself is confusing, since it's very unclear what nations are pro-Autobot/EDC/UN and anti. So a raid in France, for example, might mean one thing to one person and a completely different thing to another."

First Aid says, "I think Earth is a lot simpler in that 99% of Earth is pro-UN/EDC/Bot. I think France might be the exception and I have no idea what Nate is planning for htat."

Clutch says, "75% of Earth is water. ;)"

Swindle says, "Is that a general assumption, First Aid, or the actual theme? At points previous, there have been vastly higher levels of national conflict on Earth."

Clutch says, "Ocean."

First Aid says, "That water loves Seaspray, Clutch."

Clutch nods, but it's up for grabs right? Not pro-anyone, yet.

First Aid says, "General assumption."

Warpath proposes an 'Alliances' page on the Wiki. COUNTRIES THAT ARE ALLIED WITH DECEPTICONS: X, Y, Z. COUNTRIES THAT ARE ALLIED WITH CURRENT PLOT FACTION: A, B, C. COUNTRIES THAT ARE GRAY AREAS: P, Q, R. And everything else is assumed to be Pro-Autobot/EDC.

Nightbeat says, "I think France might actually be pro-Decepticon."

First Aid says, "The fact that I have no idea if that is true says something :-)"

Swindle says, "Bingo."

You say, "I think we've drifted well off topic here."

Warpath says, "Okay, back to proactive bots, yes?"

Warpath returns to his "The Autobots can lay traps for the Decepticons" statement.

Silverbolt raises hand. "The problem with having nations being 'pro-Decepticon' is that the Autobots end up having to fight Vietnam style to keep being the 'good guys'. And that's not really a viable option. I'm all for pro-con nations; but, how is the MUSH going to take it if some of the Autobots go for an all out fight?

First Aid says, "Traps seem cool."

You say, "Yes. As for the battle maps, and who is allied with who, and who has what territory, obviously these are issues that we as Staff need to sit down on and figure out, and then we'll get back to you."

Hot Spot says, "It's cool that if we feel like being the attackers instead of the defenders for a night, we can go launch a raid on cybertron. BUT, that isn't getting anywhere in the long term, just for one night."

Clutch says, "What if the Autobots were militarily proactive on Cybertron (or better yet space) and construction procative on Earth."

Kup says, "I once had Markdown lure the Decepticons to a car lot, which was actually full of Autobots waiting to beat on them. :O"

Clutch says, "And politically proactive everywhere."

You say, "Silverbolt, I'll put that issue next on the queue."

First Aid says, "We should strap guns to Fanfare one of these days."

Avalanche says, "Also, the attack on NCC was quite enjoyable for all parties."

Warpath says, "I think the problem is that Rod /specifically/ wants the military side to be proactive, clutch."

 Dee-Kal perks at the notion of an April first prank.

Clutch says, "Yeah so I was suggesting doing it off of Earth and then offering a reason for Earth's continued existence. ;)"

You say, "I want everyone to be proactive. Hell, I just want people starting scenes."

First Aid says, "Cybertron is a great spot for Autobots being proactive."

Warpath thinks that "Okay let's all go to Cybertron to start a fight" is a hassle for smaller scenes.

You say, "Why? I see it happen on a regular basis."

You say, "Granted, it doesn't work out all the time."

Warpath says, "I'm not saying that we can't do it, but there should be options for stuff on Earth too. The Carpark idea is brilliant, Kup."

Hot Spot says, "what hassle? that why we have meetme"

You say, "OH! No, I didn't say that I wanted to ONLY fight on Cybertron, or to ONLY be proactive on Cybertron."

First Aid has had a great time at two Bot raids on Cybertron.

Warpath says, "Someone still has to get there to start it all, and then everyone has to get back afterwards."

Clutch says, "But in practice that hasn't been hard."

Rodimus Prime hasn't found it difficult to hop between planets as a player.

Hot Spot says, "only a minute or two of wandering around the grid and taking a spacebridge, worst case scenario."

Warpath shrugs and drops it.

Swindle thinks the only real problem with Cybertron as a backdrop is that it's rare to find anyone with any actual empathy toward locations there. Or anyone who can navigate it well.

Hot Spot says, "Good points, Swindle"

First Aid says, "I agree with this. I have no idea what 90% of the rooms do."

Steeltread agrees on the navigation part.....gets lost easily.

Hot Spot says, "maybe if we do some territory takeover plots, we can build some new roads. ;)"

You say, "Hmm. I never really had a problem with navigating Cybertron's surface, at least. The vast majority of the areas can be seen from the equator-highway, so it's generally a matter of 'get to the equator-highway, then keep going either east or west until you spot your turn-off.'"

You say, "Subsurface is a bit different, though."

First Aid says, "Well, the empathy part gets me."

Swindle says, "Well, roughly, it's not easy to regard Cybertron as a 'real' place. If you scene-set in Detriot, you can pose accidentally blowing up a McDonald's next to a car park. Playing on Cybertron's more like playing on the moon -- it's mostly lifeless and stark."

Warpath says, "Thank you for arguing my point better than I could, Swindle. :)"

First Aid finds a lot of scenes on Cybertron are picked location-wise mostly at random.

 Warpath says, "Also, 'accidentally'. Right. I got you. *thumbs up*"

You say, "I'm not sure how we can solve the empathy aspect. If you don't mind, I'd like to add that as a subject to take suggestions on before I go back and answer the question about how I hope to motivate proactivity?"

Clutch says, "It would help if Cybertron was full of neutrals (or impressionable transformers) and had an emerging economy and stuff. Half the rooms imply that already though I've heard people say it's ICly a barren ghost-planet."

Clutch says, "NPC neutrals, I mean."

You say, "I am also afraid that the casual meeting method is not working, so I am going to have to move to having people page me to make comments and points."

Warpath thinks we're shifting off topic, but I'd like to talk more about.. gah. Okay.

 Dee-Kal says, "H'm?"

You say, "If you have something to say, please page me and I'll put you on the list."

<OOC> Dee-Kal is puzzled, but okay.

You say, "I'm really sorry about this."

You say, "Anyway, back to how I hoped to encourage the Autobots towards being more proactive, partially it's through supporting you guys when you make moves in that direction. Some of the recent raids on Cybertron are one example. You'll notice, too, that Rodimus is also on the hunt for both NCC and the Whalicon on Earth. Finally, the Autobots should be on the IC look out for new energy sources. When you think about it, we're a pretty big resource burden on the people on Earth."

You say, "We have the challenge of needing to follow the rules in how we aquire what we aquire, and I think there's RP and scene potential in there (and, of course, if I'm proven wrong we can discard that tact and move onto something else)."

You say, "Finally, I hope to 'lead by example'. I know I've only been in this bit for a week, and I've not done much to stir up scenage in that time, but there have been several IC groundwork laying scenes I've been part of. In addition to continuing to lay groundwork, I'm also hoping that some of those groundwork-laying bits come to fruitation soon. Some of them have started their first buds, so to speak, and others seem to be moving that way already."

You say, "Largely, I hope to encourage Autobots to start things by, well, being here and being visible. Not necessarily in battle, because it would drive the 'Cons nuts if I showed up for every little fight, but in general, to be here to ICly bounce ideas off of, and to bounce ideas off of other characters in return."

You say, "Currently on my list, I have Silverbolt and his Pro-Con/Vietnam RP issue next, followed by the Cybertron empathy issue brought up by Swindle, followed by a proactive RP suggestion by Kup. Before I move onto Silverbolt's point, does anything else have anything over the more current topic?"

Rodimus Prime prepares to dive for cover. ;)

Hot Spot says, "Sounds good on the proactive front. Looking forward to where you go with it."

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "Some folks fill the IC channels with chat. A Few IC chat channels for faction gossiping would clear the military ones."

You say, "Thanks, Hot Spot. First Aid, go. Dee-Kal, I'll add that to the list."

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "and yes, I know we have O-autobot etc. That's' for ooc gossip, though."

You say, "Dee-Kal, we'll get to that in a bit, please. :)"

First Aid's tiny point is just that feel free to show up to lil' fights if you like and RP Combat or hold back the powah and the like.

Mirage says, "Or just give your power to me."

Mirage says, "Just sayin'."

Kup says, "You don't have to use OOC in here, Dee-Kal."

Hot Spot will let you murder Redshift ;)

Clutch says, "It might actually be cool to see some less-than uber Decepticon catch a lucky break against Rodimus. Once or twice, mind you, not regularly. ;)"

You say, "Thanks, First Aid. :) I'll keep that in mind. Although... I like social RP instead, too, from time to time!"

You say, "And Clutch: I already let Astrotrain run over me! If he's not less-than-uber enough, though, I can certainly remember that. I do know how fun it is to be the little guy pulling off a surprise win, even if it's not a total victory, against 'overwhelming odds'. :D Great suggestion. :)"

You say, "Okay, if that's it, we'll move onto Silverbolt's concern. Hang on, let me scrollback to c&p it for him..."

You say, "Silverbolt raises hand. "The problem with having nations being 'pro-Decepticon' is that the Autobots end up having to fight Vietnam style to keep being the 'good guys'. And that's not really a viable option. I'm all for pro-con nations; but, how is the MUSH going to take it if some of the Autobots go for an all out fight?"

You say, "Silverbolt, that's a great question, but for it, I'm going to have to defer to the other staffers, because the one scene in France I've had since returning, at the time no one on scene OOCly knew that France hated us at the time, so it wasn't RP'd out that way. >_> This points to the need for an updated list of who favors who, I will note, but... I'll let the folks who might have seen this sort of situation in action speak. Also, Swindle and First Aid have comments on the matter."

Durango has disconnected.

Kup says, "I think the thing with France is, they may want to be pro-con, but I don't think the Decepticons take them seriously. They probably look down on them as being like fanboys."

First Aid says, "I agree that nations allying with the Cons is kinda dumb. I don't think it makes much IC sense, which makes me never know how to respond as a good guy (can I declare the French president as being psychotic?). I also think the Cons aren't the sorts who need to court entire countries. Ally with the odd humie traitor or merc group, sure, but that's about it."

Kup says, "At this point, you'd have to be pretty dumb to be their allies."

Swindle says, "The Vietnam comment notwithstanding, there's nothing wrong with the Evil faction actually being Evil and the Good faction having to weigh the fairly difficult options between doing something about it at the potential cost of the people they're trying to protect and standing by and doing nothing to avoid the built-in less-than-perfect results of their actions. Remember, the Autobots are at this point fairly well-integrated into Earth culture, and the only way they would get tossed out on their ears just for failing to be perfect heroes would be by an extremely poor application of cartoon logic or something egregious like beating small children to death on camera. That said, we would have to recognize that only two groups of nations would ever possibly be pro-Decepticon: non-UN nations getting quid pro quo from the Cons, and subjugated nations. -Both- of which we have used in the past to encourage less bravo-macho-fighty RP. I was commenting the other day when I saw the Aswan High Dam was under attack that some 6 or 7 years ago the Bots actually went on a raid to blow up that dam to cut off energy resources from the Con stronghold of Africa. This kind of RP can be both fun and rewarding, so long as people actually put some thought into it."

<OOC> Warpath decides he will have nothing to contribute so long as Swindle continues to comment so well in this meeting. :)

You say, "All right. That's a very good point. Now, Silverbolt had something else he wanted to say on the issue?"

Silverbolt says, "First Aid, I know I'm new here. But plenty of people ally with 'the bad guys'. Look at the history of the world, plenty of nations have sided with less than ideal allies to keep their gripe on their little piece of trash hole. Also, I say... if the 'cons want to ally with nations, OOC... who are we to say they are wrong?"

Rodimus Prime is, BTW, for his part, fine with weighing the consequences of... choosing between evils, so to speak. "To me, one of the differences between Optimus and Rodimus is that Rodimus is more willing to 'fight dirty,' so to speak.

First Aid says, "Because it's been established many many times before that the Cons will just backstab you."

Warpath says, "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me after forty years of IC history of treachery, shame on me.""

Swindle says, "I find this all relevant now because currently everything is very clean-cut. The Cons have nothing that the Bots very much need to take away from them for (insert variety of reasons here). Until that changes, having proactive Bots will just seem like pointless backwards raids."

Kup says, "If a country is taken over by the 'cons, that's one thing. That might make for some interesting RP. But willingly joining them? Pretty unlikely, unless your nation's leader is unstable, stupid, or has nothing left to lose."

You say, "Granted, it is not outside the realm of IC possibility that some people need shaming, but at this point in IC time, the pickings are getting pretty darn slim when it comes to willing Earth-nation allies for the 'Cons. They may be better off courting extraterristial nations (as was suggested on 'Bot channel)"

Kup suggests people look over the history of the Protectorate--in particular, how it fell. :o

First Aid says, "Subjugation sounds fine, though."

Swindle says, "Rebuttal: mostly that's because any given 'bad guy' nation is typically drawn from the pool of the chronically and comically incompetent."

You say, "As a side note, the 'Cons do have two things that the 'Bots really should try to take away from them, but they're (1) not on Earth, (2) don't involve endangered innocents (so far as I know), and (3) generally forgotten about on an OOC level."

Swindle says, "Re: Carbombya."

First Aid says, "What's because of that?"

Swindle says, "The pickings for willing Earth nations to etc..."

First Aid says, "No serious, competent nation would ally with the Decepticons."

<OOC> Dee-Kal begs to differ, actually.

Warpath says, "The Protectorate didn't fail because it was Humans-Allying-With-Cons, it failed because was run by staffers with bad ideas who thought that they should TELL players what they liked and what they wanted to play, and if they disagreed with that, they were wrong."

You say, "Although for those who feel otherwise, I would encourage you to submit a plot with the reasonings for how and why it might work. If it could be done believably, I think it could make for fun and interesting RP, but at this moment, I don't see how it could be done believably. Even within the 2k5 definition of believability."

Kup says, "I'm talking IC, Warpath. And besides, the fact remained that throughout that whole thing, neither the Protectorate or the Decepticons cared for each other. It was an alliance of convenience."

<OOC> Dee-Kal shrugs, and if no takers, remains quiet. ^-^

Fortress Maximus has arrived.

Swindle says, "I'm going to bring up Africa again. The Cons rapidly industrialized and pacified the majority of third-world Africa much to the benefit of the African nations. They simply lost all autonomy and became the target of international retribution. It was definitely neither equitable nor humane, but the Decepticons didn't go around slaughtering people. They had jobs and resources they never had before." Nightbeat says, "I will note, though, that the Decepticons duping some human country does have an element of fun to it for however long it lasts, which we do miss out on, due to implausibility given the time period. So I can understand a bit of implausibility in these scenarios."

First Aid says, "Like have the Cons be benevolent rulers?"

Kup says, "Didn't the cons cyberform Africa, according to the history?"

Swindle says, "Partially. And they built a wall around it."

First Aid pokes Swindle. Am I understanding correctly?

<OOC> Dee-Kal AGREES With Swindle.

<OOC> Warpath says, "GSDFHSGTOH"

Avalanche has disconnected.

<OOC> Warpath says, "Sorry, can someone page me with anything said after First Aid going "First Aid says, "Like have the Cons be benevolent rulers?"""

First Aid says, "You missed nothing."

Hot Spot has disconnected.

You say, "Swindle: Do you want to see a plot/arc/storythread/buildup/whatever you want to call it along those lines? We can perhaps bring it to Galvatron as a move for the Decepticons to make..."

Swindle says, "'Benevolent' isn't accurate. 'Benign' doesn't really work either. 'Police State' is a good term."

Swindle says, "Police States are great so long as you side with the police."

First Aid says, "But being ruled by the Cons would be beneficial? IE, preferable to not being ruled by the Cons?"

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "Yes."

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "Ask, if you're interested. ^-^"

Kup says, "Well, I could see that. Life under Decepticon rule wouldn't be great, but if you managed to keep you head down and avoided saying anything stupid to the giant robots walking around everywhere, then it might be tolerable. Even so, I imagine some might think, "Boy, I really hate those guys. If only I had a RPG launcher or two.""

Swindle says, "Roddy, I'm just saying it's -doable- and has -precedent- in theme. And it does provide an awful lot for the Autobots to work against proactively. On many fronts. Hearts-and-minds type stuff, as well as military."

Warpath thinks we all went off the 'page to comment' format. :(

First Aid says, "Judging from reactions I think I might be in the minority here, but I prefer the Decepticons to be really evil. IE, being ruled by them is horrible for your species."

Rodimus Prime nods. "All right. I'll keep that in mind and talk to Galvatron, although really, this still goes back to 'waiting for the Decepticons to do something first'."

You say, "That is, we can't win a people back from the Decepticons until they take them first."

Swindle says, "As always, the Bots are ultimately reactive. Ultimately in the grand scheme of things. If there were no Decepticons, the Autobots would have nothing to do."

Steeltread says, "except assault the Quints."

You say, "And if there were no Autobots, we'd have Decepticon Dominion. ;) I do realize that, yes."

Swindle says, "Just saying. You have to let the Decepticons win something in order to try to win it back."

First Aid agrees.

First Aid takes our thing to pages. We've had good page MUSH theory convos before :-)

You say, "Anyway, I think we've gotten about as far as we can on this topic without going into circles. I can talk to Galvatron and the other TPstaffers to see what they think about the matter. And yes, I am aware that OOCly, we cannot win every battle and that the Decepticons must sometimes make progress against us."

<OOC> Dee-Kal h'mph.

You say, "On to the next topic. There was Swindle's point about the inability to emphathize with Cybertron as it is. What I would like is suggestions on how we can fix it. I did want to first make a comment about someone else's mention of Neutral NPCs: As far as I know, right now the only neutral populated area is New Crystal City, and the only reason that stays that way is because technically there's a big Guardian robot who never actually does anything to make frownie faces at anyone who causes trouble. That said, both the Autobots and Decepticons have cities (not singular, at least not in the 'Cons' case) that are populated against civilians, and I think propaganda campaignes and other ways to undermine the opposite side's authority in those populated regions might make for an interesting spring board. That's just one thing, though. Does anyone else have ideas as to how we could maybe make fights on Cybertron feel like they mean something OOCly to players?"

You say, "Okay, Clutch had something."

Clutch says, "I think there's a lot of potential in the neutral transformers/emerging economy idea. But also I'd suggest some TPs/RP involving Autobots trying to revitalize Cybertron (made possible by the new location/situation) and repopulate it by attracting more transformers from other places in the Universe."

Clutch says, "I know we started out talking about military proactiveness, but I kinda feel that military/combat stuff is the easiest to set up and can easily happen even if we're officially doing other types of scenes."

Clutch says, "Plus it doesn't seem completely productive to talk military because a lot of the ideas would be dependant on what Decepticons and Decepticon players want to do, right? IE we can't just say 'conquer these Earth nations so the Autobots can move against you!' :)"

Clutch says, "That's it, though I have some examples of what I mean by revitalizing/repopulating Cybertron."

-- WELCOME TO ... _________ ___   _  ______________  ___  __  __________  ____ /_  __/ _ \/ _ | / |/ / __/ __/ __ \/ _ \/  |/  / __/ _ \/ __/  / / /, _/ __ |/    /\ \/ _// /_/ / , _/ /|_/ / _// , _/\ \   /_/ /_/|_/_/ |_/_/|_/___/_/  \____/_/|_/_/  /_/___/_/|_/___/                                                         ___  ___  ___  ____ +-->  COMMANDS <---+     |_  |/ _ \/ _ \/ __/ | 'connect guest' to login as a guest         |    / __// // / // /__ \ | 'connect ' to login to your |   /____/\___/\___/____/ |  existing character                         |    __  _____  ________ __ | 'QUIT' to logoff                            |   /  |/  / / / / __/ // / | 'WHO' to see who's online                   |  / /|_/ / /_/ /\ \/ _  / +--+ /_/ /_/\____/___/_//_/ Visit the TF2005 homepage at: http://www.tf2005.net/ E-mail us at: 2k5apps@gmail.com -- GAME: Rodimus Prime has reconnected. You say, "ARGH!"

You say, "I missed everything after Clutch wrapping up and saying he had some examples for revitilazation, although I did also have First Aid followed by Kup on the list for this topic."

First Aid says, "We got your paragraph after his examples thing."

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "You didn't miss that much."

You say, "I'm really sorry about that. My computer took a nosedive. :( And yay! Too bad it won't show on my log."

First Aid says, "There was a question about what the state of Cybertron is like."

Rodimus Prime says, "Not only did I not intend to limit the topic to military proactiveness, but you'll be happy to hear that the first IC steps have already been taken towards some revitalization attempts, so we agree with that idea. I like the idea of seeing more Transformers return from elsewhere in the universe - we've already seen a bit of that lately, with the Prison that Nightbeat was on, the *Masters, the guys that Monstereo brought back. That would also be a way to get more neutral NPCs back, as these may be characters that fled the war. Very good ideas, in all!"

Clutch says, "So quick question, what is the state of Cybertron? Ghost planet?"

Clutch says, "And what about the NPC bars there?"

Nightbeat says, "I don't think it's as dead as people claim it is. I think it's mainly hyperbole."

Swindle says, "I think there's too much general confusion on the subject, and not enough concrete reference to existing theme."

Swindle says, "Sorry for the repeat on the folks who didn't crash. ;)"

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "Hee, nice one Swindle."

You say, "If anyone besides First Aid and Kup paged me, they'll have to re-page me. And Cybertron... well, sunny, for one thing. A lot of the @descs have changed. I think some of the old 'Energon used to be here and is gone' @descs now indicate resources. I know of two bars on Cybertron, one Decepticon and one on Neutral turf, but I'm all for more IC bars, either NPC or otherwise! Also, Swindle: Thank you for the emit. I really appreciate that. :D"

You say, "Wait. Three IC bars. One in Crystal City."

Kup says, "Maybe a TP is in order to establish what life on Cybertron for the average joe is like nowadays. :O"

Steeltread says, "need one for the bots. For Kup, Nightbeat and one with an apartment for Powerglide to live in."

You say, "Everyone plays recent returnees?"

Kup says, "Sure. "Look, Honey, they got the Magnetocelerometer Fountain working again.""

You say, "If there's too much confusion (and there appears to be), that's something we can bring back to take action on, add it to our to-do list on things to get hammered out for you guys. :)"

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "Are we on track, here..?"

Clutch says, "Well if you think about it, long-term TPs (or multi-scene or however you want to describe them) are the proven way to create empathy for any place. That's what we saw in Russia (Russian Risk), or the UK (Metroplex moving), Orion Pax (during Matrix Quest), or Nebulos."

Rodimus Prime nods. "Good point."

You say, "First Aid, you had something to add to the subject?"

First Aid says, "I just wanted to say I liked the idea of getting a coloured map back."

Swindle says, "Personally, I think having a 'normal' Cybertron populace is a pretty severe error. It assumes that the Decepticons can't produce the military output to make those regions war-torn by way of conquest again, which defeats the entire premise of the Decepticons as a serious threat."

Silverbolt says, "Also... where is this population going to come from? Most of the population was killed in the war. I think."

Rodimus Prime frowns. "Okay. I have lost my topics list. After the Empathy topic, I know there's the IC Chatter channel topic, and Warpath just paged me, but I *know* I'm missing some things. Could anyone who had a topic-level item please page me?"

You say, "Silverbolt: according to our theme and history files, little chunks of the Cybertronian population left for other worlds and other regions (most to continue the war elsewhere) throughout Cybertron's history."

Kup says, "Well, technically we already have that civilian populace in Crystal City. Although, of course, not every city can have an incredibly powerful Guardian watching over it. :O"

Fortress Maximus has disconnected.

Rodimus Prime always got the impression that the Decepticon cities and Autobot city were also populated, just by /civilian/ Autobots and Decepticons as opposed to pure neutrals. "I could be wrong there. Anyway, Swindle, if you don't think that would work, do you have other ideas?"

Steeltread says, "zombies"

You say, "What about zombies?"

Nightbeat says, "Some of the city @descs do describe civvy 'cons."

Steeltread says, "didn't we have a plot about zombie mechs once?"

Warpath says, "Yes. What about zombies?"

You say, "We've had lots of plots about zombie mechs."

You say, "Many, many plots abotu zombie mechs."

Steeltread says, "Okie."

Steeltread says, "I was being silly and I was only in on one zombie plot...."

You say, "Aaaaah."

Steeltread says, "perhaps the 'civvies' are the ones making the upgrades and junk for the two factions..."

Clutch says, "I'm not sure that if the Decepticons letting Cybertron remain neutral it makes them look bad militarily. They need to beat all the Autobots first, then they can easily roll over any neutrals. Remember, ICly they tried to 'conquer everything at once' before it didn't work."

You say, "If there's no objection, I'm going to move on."

Steeltread says, "none here."

You say, "All right. Dee-Kal wants IC chat partylines. Now, I'm going to say up front that generally speaking, I dislike this idea. In fact, just today I asked Hazard to delete IC-Bull (he did). The reasons for this: first, when there's nothing 'official' going on that ties up the IC radios, that's what the faction channels and the Earth channel end up getting used as, anyway, so they'd be redundant with those at that time. Yes, I know that sometimes we need to clear the frequency for actual military operations, which yes, puts a crimp in IC casual chit-chat. The question I have here is: why don't you just go to the other room with those other people who are not in combat, and chit chat with them THERE, and earn yourself some ticks while you're at it? While the IC radios can be a fun supplement to 'face to face' RP, it kind of bothers me to see them used as a replacement for it."

Dee-Kal wrinkles her nose. The IC-chat channels idea? To separate comments and conversation from military stuff? Well, for folks wishing to log the various IC channels, my idea was that they be created with the faction title first - <Autobot-Chat> etc, as opposed to the OOC based ones <O-Junkion> etc. At the time IC-Chat channels seemed like a good idea, but I've gone off the notion. Too many channels to wade through, and referring to it as 'chatter' (irrelevant) not 'chat' (social/community) puts me off completely. Also it's kind of fun watching Red Alert encrypt the channels we do have when convos get military.

Dee-Kal shrugs. EASy come, easy go. ^-^ Next?

You say, "Well, that was fast!"

You say, "Next. Kup, you're up."

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "But don't you *dare* ever call it 'chatter' again."

First Aid says, "What is wrong with calling something chatter?"

You say, "Try and stop me. :)"

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "I already explained. Now shush. Stay on track."

Kup says, "To get more pro-active and such, I had a simple idea for the Autobots--energy fundraiser. Now I don't imagine the Autobots would literally knock on people's doors asking for money, or have telethons, or what have you. Instead, I imagine it might look like a propaganda campaign to get the nations of Earth to toss more energy at the Autobots by appealing to their people. Or we could do events to raise awareness, like races and that sort of thing."

Steeltread can imagine a commercial of Kup breaking down in the middle of nowhere.....and calling Onstar.

First Aid is always up for fun stuff like that.

Kup says, "Wow, no real objections! It must be a GREAT idea!"

Rodimus Prime likes the idea! Will add it to The List! Or something. "Any comments on it? And... Autobots taking sponserships and posting commercials on the +bboards would be /hilarous/, although, of course, the folks that's IC for are the ones who should stick to that sort of thing."

Steeltread says, "or they're laughing at my comment."

Steeltread says, "or saying 'bzuh?'"

Mirage says, "Hollywood says he'll do some. For a price."

Silverbolt is not going to be a jetline for fuel...

You say, "All right. Moving on... Warpath had something."

Warpath says, "Ack, sorry, the phone rang."

Warpath says, "I really think that one of the cooler things that the Autobots did in the last year was shift Autobot city to the UK. The Decepticons have a lot of flux with their bases, but the Autobots don't seem to have the same thing. What I wanted to know was--where do you think the next step is from here? Should AC stay in Britain? Should it move back to San Fran? Or could it possibly move somewhere else? What about other bases?

Primarily I'm asking this of our fearless leader and her thoughts, but also opening it up to the floor to see who else might have an opinion on this."

Mirage says, "I would just like to say: Hail Britain."

Mirage quiets.

Foxfire has arrived.

Foxfire peeks in.

Clutch says, "It would be cool if Metroplex kept moving to different places on Earth."

Steeltread says, "What about Fort Max?"

Foxfire says, "So what're we talking about?"

You say, "I'm being told that Autobot City was meant to move to Belgium months ago. I see no reason not to move it now instead."

First Aid says, "Fort Max isn't a cityformer."

Noah Wolfe has arrived.

Warpath says, "Sweet! What about other bases?"

Kup says, "Yeah, let's go sightseeing. The whole world needs to know what it's like to have to live next to Autobots. :)"

You say, "Woot! Okay. So, that answer your question, Warpath?"

Clutch says, "I think having one base kind of helps keep people together for casual RP."

You say, "Oh, othe rbases."

You say, "I will note that as Fleet, I actually /had/ been periodically moving NCC, but I forgot for the last couple of weeks. In a way, the Orion Pax is a base, and I see a decent amount of casual RP both on it and in Autobot City."

You say, "Although it mostly seems a matter of, 'Where did the most recent major scene take place? If Earth, then RP in Autobot City. If space, than RP in Grapplebee's.'"

Warpath says, "Sweet. Thanks."

You say, "That's the end of my list!"

First Aid notes you guys can always hang out at Alameda if you want to visit San Francisco again ;-)

You say, "Although I did think I should mention that I intend to court martial Fort Max next week. D:"

Nightbeat says, "Actually, most of us can't get into Alameda. I can't."

Grimlock has arrived.

Foxfire says, "Hiya, Grimmy."

Clutch isn't a fan of how many themes of Autobot traitors, Autobots suspecting other Autobots, and other forms of inter-faction conflict we've been having lately. :(

Clutch says, "Just feels like a lot of it, when there's stuff in the theme and overdone concepts etc to imply it should be very rare."

You say, "The thing is, we /do/ have Autobots who have ICly suspicious natures, and it's inappropriate to say they're not allowed to behave that way."

Mirage >.>

First Aid says, "If it makes you feel any better, First Aid loves you all ;-)"

Grimlock says, "First Aid is pretty much Tailgate with a doctrate."

Noah Wolfe has disconnected.

First Aid says, "And some sanity."

You paged Silverbolt with 'Nope.'

Steeltread says, "some?"

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "And a memory that lasts longer than 30 seconds."

First Aid's ego grows.

You say, "I will also... hold on a moment, please..."

Kup says, "We are the good guys, but that doesn't mean we have to be saints. Admittedly, it doesn't mean we have to be as dysfunctional as the BSG crew, either. :O"

Foxfire pokes First Aid's ego.

You say, "Defections in the background are disallowed, and Anti-authority Autobots are disallowed. There's a difference between defection (changing sides) and desertion (just ditching your own side), and there's a difference between being anti-authority and just having some personality conflicts with others on the same side."

Steeltread can attest to that.

Dee-Kal notes officially that she's not deserted the Junkion faction. She's in two.

Steeltread says, "especially with Grimlock."

Foxfire is a good little fox who follows orders. :D

Silverbolt already has an IC beef with Roddo. :D

Grimlock mmm. Beef.

Mirage has beef with all of you commoners.

You say, "Get together any group of diverse personalities, and conflict is bound to arise. To my mind, one of the things that marks the difference between Autobots and Decepticons is that the Autobots can usually in the end overcome their differences without putting bullet holes in the backsides of their own teamates."

<OOC> Dee-Kal says, "Stay on track, please..?"

Steeltread says, "key word....usually."

Clutch says, "Well we had DepthCharge the traitor, then Nightbeat framed as a traitor, and I think at some point Ultra Magnus being a traitor? (or at lease cerebro-shell'd and had to be restrained by other Autobots), then all of the Fallen-ized Autobots, and now the angle of Fort Max being considered a traitor. Feels like a lot. More Autobot traitors than zombie plots. ;)"

Grimlock says, "Wasn't the whole Nightbeat/magnus/DC all part of the same TP?"

Steeltread says, "no."

Swindle says, "That does seem to be an overuse of the trope."

You say, "The Nightbeat/Magnus/Fallen-ized things /were/ part of the same TP, though."

First Aid says, "Cliffjumper has clearly not been doing his job."

Clutch says, "Magnus was cerebro-shell'd outside of the fallen plot. Maybe in Russian Risk?"

You say, "Ah. Well, that was before my return to the MUSH (as was the thing with DC)."

Nightbeat says, "Magnus was evil twice, actually."

Kup says, "Kup forgave what Nightbeat and the other Reapers did because they weren't "themselves." Max freely chose to leave the Autobots in the middle of a war, though."

Dee-Kal says, "On diverse personalities - Headmaster Highbrow and Gort. UK Marvel comic story - different as chalk and cheese, but use their differences to work together better as a whole. Even more so than the Decepticon Headmasters. And won, incidentally."

Grimlock says, "Also, the deal with Fort Max is, uh...do we even HAVE any *masters being played? :)"

You say, "The second time he wasn't actually Magnus - it was Nemesis Prime standing in for him, if it's the one I think it is."

Clutch says, "Yeah, they're different, but it feels like this recurring theme of Autobots having to oppose other Autobots."

Nightbeat coughs.

Foxfire says, "Nemesis Prime was masquerading as Magnus, IIRC."

You say, "Grimlock: Fort Max himself."

Steeltread says, "DC was Cerebro shelled after going on a mission ot Unicron's head during the Megatron/Galvatron Con civil war plot.....when Red Alert wanted info during that time." Steeltread was Red Alert at that time.

You say, "Truth be told, part of why I want to wrap the trial up /now/ is because it IS an IC issue for some of the characters in the game, but I /don't/ want the issue to be hanging over potential new *Master players."

Grimlock agrees with that sentiment, Rod.

Clutch says, "Can that be the last Autobot-vs-Autobot stuff for a while? As much as can be reasonably controlled at least?"

You say, "At his point, I can't really get around the IC backstory for how they were introduced, but we can keep in mind that we should maybe stay away from that trope for awhile."

You say, "Erm. Yeah. Was typing that when you spoke. :)"

Swindle says, "Add 'legal trials' to the list of stuff to avoid for awhile."

Swindle says, "Nothing says 'false crisis' like a trial."

Grimlock says, "Heh."

Mirage coughmorespystuffcough

You say, "Eh. I was going to just sit down with Fort Max and my CoC and talk it out, but a scene I was in yesterday kind of forced the trial angle."

Grimlock says, "Oh?"

Dee-Kal steps out to the bathroom.

Dee-Kal has left.

Kup says, "I think the concern over Autobot vs Autobot is a little overblown. It's not like we're in a civil war."

Kup says, "And if anything, the trial should help resolve some of these interpersonal disputes."

Rodimus Prime >:)

Foxfire says, "Uh-oh. Roddy's evil face! Run!"

Kup says, "Or... will it? :O"

Foxfire dun dun duns!

Clutch waves and takes off, see you guys later. Welcome again NewRod.

Clutch has disconnected.

You say, "Well, anyway, anymore issues?"

Silverbolt says, "Nope."

Steeltread says, "no issues."

First Aid says, "As a general note, the payment for First Aid upgrading you will be two +noms and a hug."

Steeltread says, "I like hugs."

Foxfire nopes!

Mirage suddenly reveals that he was holographing Roddy this WHOLE TIME.

Mirage dun dun DUNN

Rodimus Prime gasps!

Foxfire says, "Oh, yeah, First Aid. I need someone for my accuracy upgrade."

First Aid says, "You know the price."

Foxfire gives a hug for starters!

First Aid gives a third of an accuracy upgrade.

Foxfire :(

Nightbeat needs to get his stupid pre-TACS upgrades done.

You say, "Of course, if anyone has any ideas, they are encouraged to submit them in @mail or +plot or similar. We /do/ have a backlog (which is good - it means we have a lot of plots to work through), so depending on the nature, some things can be done sooner than others (one-nighters are usually easy to slip in any time). And, of course, we're not going to be able to make everyone happy all of the time, but we hope to have an overall fun envorinment for most of the people most of the time."

Silverbolt is confused enough by the TACS... I have two different sets of stats... and some are better than others in one

Steeltread says, "go by !profile"

Silverbolt knows.

Mirage is, at some point, going to have to learn how to fight. Since he is, after all, James Bot.

Mirage spars Roddy.

You say, "Oh, yeah!"

You say, "At some point I want to RP a holo-version of myself in the Decepticon training room. >_> But that's something I should mention to the 'Cons, I imagine."

Foxfire says, "Bot. *James* Bot."

First Aid says, "The Cons will make you extra whiny."

You say, "Okay!"

Nightbeat says, "And baby-eating."

Swindle will sell tickets to the Cons for you.

Nightbeat says, "You'll whine about how terrible the babies taste."

Mirage says, "Or. We can make them think it was a hologram you and do the coolest quarterback sneak attack ever."

Rodimus Prime tends to find some of the more unusual training room-based scenes to be pretty fun (and no, they don't necessarily have to involve the training room malfuntioning). "But that's random and stuff. Meeting's over, folks."

Swindle says, "Party at Rod's place!"

Foxfire goes to do FOX STUFF.

First Aid still likes his idea of training room malfunction training.

Silverbolt says, "Football game?"

Swindle !resupplies everyone with kegs!

You say, "I'll try to get the log up within the next couple of days."

Steeltread says, "this is a pleasent change."

First Aid says, "But see, during the training room malfunction training the training room malfunctions."

First Aid says, "But it is just training so it is ok."

You say, "Party at my place? Hey, I can be the party wagon!"

Swindle says, "Real holographic simulated EVIL LINCOLN is back!"

Mirage works on a Casino Refuel plot.

First Aid says, "Shall we head to the training room to test your upgrades, Fox? What is it for exactly anyhow?"

Foxfire rides in Rodimus. "Wheeeeee!"

Foxfire says, "Accuracy. I actually planned for him to get an upgrade to his battle computer, and then test it out in the training room. Something to that effect."

First Aid says, "Ok. Wanna skip to the fun part? Naming the testing? And if you need another log later we call it additional calibration or something?"

Steeltread heads back IC.

Foxfire says, "Sure!"

Steeltread has left.

Foxfire is a victim of OFFSCREEN SCIENCE.

First Aid flees IC. Last note, I think you are all great! Even Kup!

First Aid has left.

Mirage buys some upgrades.

Mirage >.>

Silverbolt has left.

You say, "I'm going to stumble back to Club Con. Too late for me to get much IC in tonight, I fear."